From jayabarathi Tue Mar 16 23:18:04 1999
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:24:20 +0800
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From: jayabarathi
Cc: Bala Pillai ,jennifer , "Dr. K. Kalyanasundaram"
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Subject: [agathiyar] MS: letter, scholar comments
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Dear Agathiyar Netters,

There was request from Ms.Jennifer of U.S. for
help in identifying/deciphering a manuscript of unknown
origin. She was referred by our Dr.Kalyan.
After many sessions lasting from 21-1-99 until
now, occupying more than 70 correspondence on my part alone,
now we have more or less put ourselves on target.
Now Dr.Swaminathan, the Tamil poet from L.A-
I did'nt create this term; its there in the synopsis; but I
totally concur with it.
Vikram
RamaSubramaniam
Suman
are following up at specified places in Karnataka and the U.S.
I am enclosing the latest synopsis that Ms.Jennifer had
written. Our members requested for a briefing about it.
In fact, Singgai Palani rang up last night about it.
Whatever we have done this far, that we are in a
position to help out in such a project........
The fullest credit should go to Tamil.net.
Because, after all Agathiyam is but an off-shoot
of Tamil.net.
We are all here to-day because of Tamil.net.
Thanks to you, Bala!

Regards

Jayabarathi

N.B. The views of scholars have been editted by Ms.Jennifer and she has
requested me to put this note.

---------------------------Forwarded-------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:45:20 -0600
>From: jennifer
>Organization: plan b
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
>To: jayabarathi
>Subject: MS: letter, scholar comments-please review
>
>Dear Sirs,
>
>My name is Jennifer Lack and I have been researching the identity of a
>palm leaf manuscript that has been in my family for some time. It has
>been a great mystery. Scholars and institutions from all over the United
>States had been consulted (including Harvard, Yale, the Smithsonian and
>the Library of Congress), to no avail.
>
>Some time ago I queried Dr. Kalyansundaram of the Swiss Federal
>Institute of Technology. He most graciously referred me to Dr.
>Jayabarathi of Malaysia and Dr. David Magier of Columbia University in
>New York. Under the guidance of these gentlemen, especially Dr.
>Jayabarathi, we have made some progress.
>
>Our search has encompassed the expertise of scholars world wide via the
>net. We now believe that definitive identification can most likely be
>made by certain institutions that are not connected to the world wide
>web. Dr. Jayabarathi has given you this information.
>
>After the text is identified, I hope to have it fully translated and
>made available for scholarly and/or religious study, if there is some
>interest.
>
>Below you will find a full description of the manuscript and a list of
>scholarly comments and observations. Dr. Jayabarathi has instructed me
>to forward these to you, along with the images of the text so that you
>may forward them to these institutions. Some of the image files are
>attached. The rest are in a second e-mail, so they do not overwhelm your
>systems.
>
>Your readiness to assist in this matter is greatly appreciated. The
>words "thank you" are simply inadequate. Please let me know that you
>received this message and the images. I eagerly await your response.
>
>Sincerely,
>Jennifer Lack
>
>Description:
>Palm leaf manuscript, 108 folios (plus one blank) with 5 lines of script
>on each side of each folio for a total of 1080 lines. Two thicker wooden
>covers, entire ms bore through and connected by cord. The overall
>dimensions are 1" W, 2"H, 4"L. The ratio therefore is 1:2:4. Numbers 1 -
>108 on lines in the folios indicate the ms is most
>likely complete and in order. The dimensions of the ms, the number of
>folios, number of lines in the text and the numbering system used on the
>folios are likely to be significant (see scholar comments below). The ms
>opens with an invocation/ salution and possible title (all in Sanskrit):
>
> shrir astu shri ganesha-sharada-gurubhyo namah /
> nava-ratna-cintamani-pustaka...
>
>What we know:
>
> Age: 400-600 yrs. or less
>
> Script: almost certainly some variation of Nandinagari
>
> Language: Most likely Kannada, with Sanskrit and Telugu
>
> Place of Origin: Most likely Karnataka or nearby
>
>Subject matter: UNKNOWN
> possibly a poem/ religious text dedicated to Lord Krishna
> possibly a Tantric text
> possibly a stotra
>
>Relevant comments from scholars: (most recent comments are found at
>bottom of list)
>
>"Looks like Nandinagari.... script dates to 14th-18th centuries, used in
>some p.l.mss in S. India, especially in Vijayanagara and amongst Madhva
>brahmanas" - anonymous contribution
>
>Dr. Harold Schiffman, Academic Director, Dept. of South Asia Studies,
>University of Pennsylvania: "Does not look Dravidian to me... recognize
>a few devanagari characters, a number of clear 'ka' syllables."
>
>Dr. Allen Thrasher, Senior Reference Librarian, South Asia Section,
>Library of Congress: "not being Sanskrit, one would usually assume it
>would be some middle or modern Indo-Aryan language... but
>cannot say which one... wonder if it is that or some other language
>group... Munda or Dravidian....... I can scarcely find a word that makes
>any sense to me... vocabulary seems highly unSanskritic... doesn't look
>like Nandinagari..."
>
>Dr. Avinash Maheshwary, Duke University
> "..... the most important words which I could make out were in the
>second line of the first page which refers to a book called, "Chintamani
>pustaka." "Pustaka" in Sanskrit and many other Indian languages means
>"book." "
>
>Dr. Gerhardt Ehlers, Orientabteilung Staatsbibliotek zu Berlin:
>"........ it definitely is nandinagari script, language possibly Telugu
>and Sanskrit or Manipravala. It begins: shrir astu shri
>ganesha-sharada-gurubhyo namah / nava-ratna-cintamani-pustaka...
>May there be luck. Reverence to both (spiritual teachers) Ganesha and
>Sharada. These are variants of very frequent invocation formulas which
>are to be found in the beginning of almost every indian manuscript.
>However the Gods invoked (here Ganesha and Sharada) vary. The mention of
>Sharada indicates that the text is very likely a tantric work as some
>one already suggested."
>
>Dr. Jonathan Silk, Yale University: "One thing to consider is what is
>sometimes called ".dakini" script. This is used, at least in Tibet (I
>know-- your MS is unlikely to be Tibetan) for esoteric texts, for
>example terma (gter ma); the writing is often meant to look
>like real writing, but it is not; the treasure finder - terton (gter
>ston) then deciphers/reads the text -- ie, he invents the meaning he
>wants. Another depressing possibility is that it was created as a
>forgery by someone who found out that someone somewhere somewhen was
>buying up MSS he could not read..."
>
>Dr. Jayabarathi: "...there are many literary works which always start
>with Sanskrit verses and followed by the local language.
>Quite a number of Tamil verses start like that."
>
> Dr. Juergen Neuss, Institut fur Indische Philologie und
>Kunstgeschichte, Berlin, Germany: "....very clear Nandinagari script.
>I think the manuscript must have been written in the Dekhan area. A
>couple of weeks ago I have read a manuscript in a very similar script,
>which I had earlier photographed in Mysore. So what I have read until
>now is Sanskrit. I started with the first line which reads: SrIr astu.
>SrI gaNeSa SaradA gurubhyo namaH. The second line begins: navaratna
>(s)ItAmaNipustaka ... and something which I could not read on the first
>sight. I think that the first two pages at least should be readable
>(understandable). The lines of pages two, three and so on seem to begin
>with a number and the same syllable."
>
>Dr. Jayabarathi: "The first line "SrIr astu" means "Let there be
>prosperity". It is followed by the salutations to the god Sri Ganesa and
>the teacher. Or it can also mean salutations to SriGanesa who is
>perpetual guru . "SaradA" could have been misread. It might mean
>salutations to the feet of Ganesa who is the Guru. "navaratna (s)ItAmaNi
>pustaka" could be the name of the manuscript. It could be " navaratna
>cintAmaNi pustaka". Then, it makes more sense. navaratna = nine gems;
>ciNtamaNi = the jewel that gives all that is desired. It is a mythical
>jewel which, when held in the hand and a certain wish is made, the wish
>is fulfilled. "pustaka" is book."
>
>Dr. Elliot Stern, formerly of University of Pennsylvania: "....first
>character of the lines....is probably I (long i), but it is not always
>long i. Sometimes it is short i. In the first set of folios, there comes
>first a blank folio, then the folio beginning "zrIgaNezazAradAgurubhyo".
>This first inscribed folder has no number... although there is a
>character in the left margin of the obverse side of the leaf where folio
>numbers are written on the other leaves. This character appears
>to...perhaps be an ornamental form of zrIH, but I would not stake my
>reputation on this interpretation. The next three folios are numbered 1,
>2, and 3. On each of these, the second line begins with the number 1,
>the third line with the number 2, the fourth line with the number 3, and
>the fifth line with the number 4. We see this pattern also on all the
>obverse sides of the last five folios. Also, the obverse sides of the
>last five folios are numbered 104, 105, 106, 107,108. On the reverse
>sides of all of these numbered folios, the lines are numbered 5, 6, 7,
>8, and 9. There may be some numerological or mystical significance to
>the parallelism between unnumbered first folio
>followed by numbered folios, and unnumbered first line of folios,
>followed by numbered lines, particularly as the last numbered folio line
>is 9, which is also the sum of the digits of the last folio number
>(108). We may also note that most of the lines of the unnumbered folio
>do not begin in I (long i) or i, so that we may state as an hypothesis
>that the character of the text, and possibly the language, of this folio
>may be different from that of all the numbered folios which follow. We
>already know that at least the beginning of this folio is formulaic
>invocation of deities, etc. Since the folios I have seen thus far seem
>to be in their proper order, we may seemingly infer that the text is in
>its proper order. I am guessing that the text, if not some sort of
>tantric work, as suggested by others, is possibly a stotram - hymn of
>praise - of some sort, possibly a sahasranAmastotram - hymn to a
>thousand names (of a particular deity)."
>
> Dr. Donald Traxler: "...it appears to me that the forms of the
>NUMERALS in the mystery manuscript are either Kannada or Telugu, and
>probably date from about 500 years ago, give or take a century. This
>should give a clue as to the language of the text."
>
>Dr. Jayabarathi on the significance of number of folios (108) and
>dimensions of the ms(1:2:4): "Its one of the combinations of mystic
>dimensions of the Hindu Yantra Saastra. Yantra is a geometrical
>representation of a Mantra. A Mantra can have a scriptual form when it
>is written down,; it can have a subtle form when it is thought of; it
>can have syllabic form when it is uttered; it can have verbal form when
>it is uttered in the form of words; and it can have "Maala" or garland
>form when uttered as verses or songs. 1:2:4 is a favourite ratio for a
>rectangular structure. It divides the space into two or eight equal
>square segments. This is further divided into 32, 128 segments and so
>forth. They had significance among the Vaastu Saastra or Architecture-
>something like the Chinese Feng Shui. 108 is a very significant number.
>Mantras are usually uttered 108 times. Archana is an offering of
>different Mantras to the same deity. One particular and most used, is
>called the "Ashtothara Dasa Naamaa vali"-108 names."
>
>"The numerals are in Nandinagari script. The language is almost
>definitely Kannada." - anonymous contribution
>
>Bindu Bhat, Columbia University: "As far as I can tell it is not a
>Tantrik text but a Jain Text."
>
>"Here are a few comments on the ms. :
>1. The first few lines are written in Sanskrit.
>line 1: "sriir=astu / "srii ga.ne"sa"saaradaagurubhyo nama.h /
>line 2: navaratnaci.mtaama.nipustakabarayuvadakke(?-dak.se?)
>line 3: nirvighnam=astu / ...
>
>2. The rest do not look like Sanskrit, but we often come across Sanskrit
>words. Thus, prakaara (line 4), pustaka, bhaanuvaara (line 5),
>guruvaaraddivasa..."subhadivasa (line 6), etc.
>
>3. The numerals, which indicate the folio numbers as well as line
>numbers (the first leaf and the first line on each leaf are not
>numbered), are very close to those of Kannada (See, for example, G.H.
>Ojha, _Bhaaratiiya Praaaciina Lipimaalaa_, 3rd. edition, New Delhi:
>Munshiram Manoharlal, 1971, Plate LXXX). This may suggest that the
>language is also Kannada, which I must confess I don't know. "
>- anonymous contribution
>
>Dr. Ramachandra Budihal: "This text is no doubt a nandanagari script.
>Also it starts with the ganesh sharada gurubhyonamaha. Certainly this
>cannot be a madhva text.Since most of manuscripts / palm leaves which I
>have and seen starts with Sri Vedavyasa gurubhyo namaha.Irrespective of
>text it is. I am really unaware if there are such text available among
>Madhva sampradaya which starts with ganesh sharada guru bhyo namaha.
>Also this cannot be sanskrit text if one notice on first page, there is
>pustaka instead of pustakam. Immediately after pustaka it says
>bareyuvaddkke nirv~jnamastu| I think this seems like a kannada text in
>nandanagari script. Also in 2nd page there are kannada numerals at the
>beginning of every line and page nos are also in kannada."
>
>Dr. Patrick Harrigan, Institute of Asian Studies, Madras:
>I managed to go to your website, view the pages and show them
>to some of our scholars. The opinions of two are as follows:
>Prof. Siddhalingiah of Dept. of Telugu:
>"As it has been identified earlier, this may be in the nandinagari
>script different from the current devanagari script. This may have some
>similarity with the Modi script of the Marathi language. The language as
>such seems to be Sanskrit. Definitely it is not any one of the Dravidian
>languages."
>Epigraphist Irathavan Mahadevan says:
>"The palmleaves seem to be written in the Nandinagari script of about
>the15th century AD. The langauge is Sanskrit. Apparently the text is
>some kind of a prayer. "
>
>Veeranarayana N K Pandurangi: "We visited your website. We have checked
>the manuscript. The language which is used in mans. is definately
>KANNADA. For example, `sattaanu' (he may die) `aaguvudu' (it will
>happen) etc. "
>
>Dr. N. Swaminathan, Tamil poet, L.A.: "We have been able to make out a
>few lines of this palm leave manuscript pictures. We have identified few
>phrases and lines in this file.
>One line reads "matha tho illavo" (Aren't you like a mother)
>"Banni Navu kandillavo" (come, I haven't seen you)
>"meema thehatho illavo" ( you have no physical form)
>"vaha kake thaya thoillava" ( have some mercy ...)
>"ni nayaki thoothuva" (you are the messenger of God/alternatively/you
>are the royal messenger)
>Taken together it looks like a devotional poem that reflects on the
>nature of God. So far we have not been able to identify any 'muthra'
>(signature) that usually identifies the composer. There is a mention of
>'shesh' (snake) and 'garuda'(eagle)."
>
>Commentary on Swaminathan translation, Dr. Jayabarathi: "It looks like a
>poem/religious text dedicated to Lord Krishna. This holds priority
>because of the Garuda/Shesh combination. If so, the Madva relationship
>is possible. On the other hand, it could also be a poem from the Basava
>school of Vira Saivism. MahaDeviyakka has composed songs of divine
>ecstacy (like ManiVaasagar, Andaal, and St.Theresa of Avilla). The
>Mudra might sometimes be found at the end of the whole text. Many a
>times, it occurs at the last verse or the last two lines of the last
>verse. Eg., All the Thiru padhigams of Thiru Gnana Sambandhar and
>Sundarar. At later times, we have the compositions of Thiyagaiyya. Since
>it looks like, the text is made up of 108 pages or verses, it is also
>likely that the whole text is divided into cantos, like adhikaaram or
>padhigam or ashtakam. In which case the mudra might occur somewhere
>along the end of the canto. If it is a Manthra Maala preceded by a
>sthothra, then we may not find it. If such be the case, it will be
>Sanskrit. But this is in Kannada. These are the possibilities that I can
>think of, at this juncture. They may be useful as pointers and hints."
>
>These are a selection of the scholarly observations submitted through
>the internet over the last few months. Many other scholars wrote to say
>that they could not understand any of the text, including those at
>Oxford, England, and others in Japan, Australia, Germany, France,
>Thailand, Portugal and many of the "top experts" in the United States.
>
=========================================================

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