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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:19:51 -0000
To: agathiyar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: anmeekam in tamil ..
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-- In agathiyar@y..., "Vidya"
> சிவாசாரியார்கள் பற்றி ஒரு துணைக் கேள்வி ...
> [ திருவிளையாடல் தருமி போல எனக்கு கேள்வி கேட்டுத் தான் பழக்கம் :) ]
>
> அவர்கள் எல்லாருமே கௌட மற்றும் கங்கைக் கரையிலிருந்து
> குடி பெயர்ந்தவர்களா?
> சம்பந்தர் போன்றோரின் முன்னோர் தமிழ் நாட்டவர் குண்டினி நகரத்தினின்று வந்தவர் என்று
படித்திருக்கிறேன்?
> சிவாசாரியார்கள் அனைவரும் வட நாட்டிலிருந்து வந்தார்கள் என்பது நம்ப முடியவில்லை.
>
> அவ்வளவு சீக்கிரம் எப்படி மொழிப்புலமை வரும்?
Kaundinya's have been in Tamilnadu for a very long time. Before
tirujnanacampantar, we have Kaundinya, the brahmin who founded the
Funan Empire in Cambodia (today in Vietnam). He is said to have
belonged to the first century AD. This is fairly accurate based on
Chinese sources. Kaundinya is said to have emigrated from the Tamil
country and was probably a Saiva, although solid evidence is
lacking.
We also have kavuNIyan2 viNNan2 tAyan2, a performer of Vedic
sacrifices and a great patron of Tamil poets. He was said to have
been a Saiva. (cf puRanAnURu 166). We have no more solid evidence to
date of kaundinya's in an earlier period in Tamil history.
Kaundinya is a gotra name and has been attested a lot in North India.
For example, one of the earliest disciples of the Buddha (ca. 5th
century BC) in northern Bihar was AjnAta Kaundinya. He is famous in
Zen as the formulator of the Guest-Dust paradigm. There have been
other Kaundinyas attested in Vedic literature viz., satapatha
brahmana etc.. The standard lexical derivation of kaundinya is from
kundina, another personal name.
We may think of brahmin migrations etc but it would help to be
geographically accurate. For example, gaudadesa is Bengal whereas the
tuvarai that pura400 (201) talks of is Dwaraka viz., on the west
coast. Also, the solidly attested AjnAta Kaundinya is from Northern
Bihar/Southern Nepal. Are we trying to say that tamiz was spoken in
all these regions? If that indeed is claimed, I'd suggest that we
first sell this hypothesis to the Telugu's, our neighbors to the
north. If on the other hand, if we really meant Dravidian speakers
when we loosely say 'tamizar', it would do good to remember that the
received wisdom about the speakers of Dravidian languages lies on a
northwest-south east axis from Sind thru Gujarat-Maharashtra-
Karnataka thru Tamilnadu. Wonder where that leaves Nepal and Bengal?
I am all for proving the Dravidian basis of the Indus Valley
Civilization (IVC). But it would need to be done scientifically.
Etymological exercises (tortures more like) do not prove anything
about ancient cultures. For example, one can not use the Purananuru
to prove anything about the Indus Valley Civilization considering the
temporal gap (approx 2000 years) and geographical gap (Sind to
Tamilnadu). Sure we can use some pointers from the Purananuru but the
proof must come from the IVC not the Purananuru. Thus there is
nothing in the archaeological record of the IVC to show that potters
were priests in that culture. Plse read Palaniappan's article to
convince yourself of the extent of textual torture indulged therein
and the utter lack of any material evidence to back his claim.
I submit humbly that as Tamils we do not need the IVC to convince
ourselves of the glory of our culture. Our Classical texts talk of
the glory of the culture without any reference to the IVC. We are of
course open to the possibility that the Tamil texts talk of
migrations from Dwaraka of the VELir clans etc. But that does not
prove anything about the Indus Valley Civilization nor about the
origins of tirujnanacampantar's gotra. I would request that a few
speculations by Netters not be bandied about as if it were gospel
truth.
Hope this helps,
Lakshmi Srinivas
